Lease for Holiday Static Caravan

[Alan]

Change of site owner with the new owner asking myself along with the other caravan owners to pay a lease fee in addiion to the site fee.

Previous owners in their site licence had no mention of a lease arrangement and we just paid a site fee.

Any other holiday static caravan owners been asked by their site owners to pay a lease fee in addition to a site fee?




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[fhb2]

Unfortunately, it is quite common for new owners to holiday parks to make unpleasant changes to the terms and conditions (the most usual one is deciding on a new van-age limit, meaning that a lot of owners get told they have to upgrade or vacate). A site maintenance fee in addition to a pitch fee is not so unusual with some of the new breed of operators.
If your existing contract is still within date, you can try arguing that the new owners should honour existing terms until the contract expiry date, but if they refuse there is unlikely to be much you can do about it.
Has the new owner issued a new contract? Are the other terms acceptable?
It could be worthwhile contacting the local council to make sure that the new owners have correctly applied for the site licence to be transferred to them - if they have not done this, then they may not have the legal right to collect any money from you.
Has the park actually been sold? or is it the same owners rebranding themselves as a new company? (have a look on Companies House webcheck to see if the company directors are the same in both companies).
If either are the case (no transfer of site licence, or the same company under a different name) it could be worthwhile contacting Trading Standards, or maybe your static insurance ha a legal helpline?
Whether or not this is something you want to pursue is, of course, something only you can decide; it may be that their are improvements in the pipeline that will make things better for you, and the new owner has to raise some money to pay for them.

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[Alan]

Unfortunately, it is quite common for new owners to holiday parks to make unpleasant changes to the terms and conditions (the most usual one is deciding on a new van-age limit, meaning that a lot of owners get told they have to upgrade or vacate). A site maintenance fee in addition to a pitch fee is not so unusual with some of the new breed of operators.
If your existing contract is still within date, you can try arguing that the new owners should honour existing terms until the contract expiry date, but if they refuse there is unlikely to be much you can do about it.
Has the new owner issued a new contract? Are the other terms acceptable?
It could be worthwhile contacting the local council to make sure that the new owners have correctly applied for the site licence to be transferred to them - if they have not done this, then they may not have the legal right to collect any money from you.
Has the park actually been sold? or is it the same owners rebranding themselves as a new company? (have a look on Companies House webcheck to see if the company directors are the same in both companies).
If either are the case (no transfer of site licence, or the same company under a different name) it could be worthwhile contacting Trading Standards, or maybe your static insurance ha a legal helpline?
Whether or not this is something you want to pursue is, of course, something only you can decide; it may be that their are improvements in the pipeline that will make things better for you, and the new owner has to raise some money to pay for them.

I'm having quite a discussion with the site owner and you make good points. However what I am really looking for is if any holiday static caravan owners have had the word lease on their site conditions or agreement and shown as a separtae charge to the site fee.

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[Sparkalicious]

Hi Alan,

I am sure ours, with Park Dean, just says pitch fee. Then there is a separate bill for utilities etc and any other services we may use from them. I'll have a check in the morning on that.

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[Alan]

Hi Alan,

I am sure ours, with Park Dean, just says pitch fee. Then there is a separate bill for utilities etc and any other services we may use from them. I'll have a check in the morning on that.

Hi Sparkalicious

Did you have opportunity to check your bill to see of it included lease fee in addition to pitch or site fee?

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[fhb2]

I would think that it is immaterial whether or not other owners on other parks have lease fee and site fee both mentioned (the lack of response suggests not).
Each holiday park can draw up their own contracts - there is no requirement for a standard terminology, just a requirement for a contract to be clear and without unreasonable terms.
What is important is whether it is clearly explained what each fee is for, also whether the fees are justified.
It may be that the new owners mean "lease" to refer to the pitch, and "site" to refer to a maintenance charge for the whole site - but they must make this clear within the contract, not leave you to guess.
If they do not make it clear, then many people would assume that you are being asked to pay twice for your pitch, once under the "lease fee" and again under the "site fee" - which would certainly not be either reasonable or acceptable..
Citizens Advice or Trading Standards will be your friend, if this is the case.


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[Alan]

I thought it was  a simple question whther other caravan owners pay a lease fee and site (or a pitch) fee, the answer is yes or no?

And to add further confusion, the annual lease fee is due for payment six month apart from the site or ptich fee..So you pay a supposed lease fee and six months later a site or ptich fee and six month later a lease fee and so on.

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[Sparkalicious]

Sorry Alan,

I'm trying to find out what my statement says, not ignoring you promise, just Park Dean, it appears, have upgraded their Owners back end, and I can't log in. We have just got an extra bill for site fees of £1500 so that was nice 

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[Alan]

No problem, I wasn't expecting a quick response regarding your bill I was really addressing the comment about my question being immaterial.

I did a lot of searching on the Internet and couldn't find any information about owners charging both a lease fee and a site (or piitch) fee. The lease fee being charged by the new owners is 50% of the site fee, which mean caravan owners are being asked to pay 50% more than last year..

Sorry Alan,

I'm trying to find out what my statement says, not ignoring you promise, just Park Dean, it appears, have upgraded their Owners back end, and I can't log in. We have just got an extra bill for site fees of £1500 so that was nice 

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[fhb2]

Sorry, I did not mean that your question was immaterial - I used a very inappropriate word.
What I meant was, the consumer act says that contracts must not include unreasonable terms.
If your contract does not explain what the two fees are for, you are left to assume that you are paying two fees for your pitch - and that is certainly not reasonable (or acceptable).
Discovering that somebody else has a contract that included both a lease fee and a site fee would not mean your fees then became reasonable or acceptable simply because somebody else had a similar contract.
IF your contract explains what each fee is for, and they are for separate VALID charges then they may be reasonable, but only you can decide whether they are acceptable to you, and again whether or not other people have both in their contract makes no difference to whether you think they are or are not acceptable.
Even if somebody does have both a lease fee and a site fee, their park could use the words to mean something totally different to whatever your park uses them to mean.
But it does sound quite strange, I would still be inclined to ask somebody with legal knowledge to cast an eye over this contract - Citizens Advice, Trading Standards, or Which? or NACO (you may have to join them for that) or you may have a free legal helpline with your house or static insurance.


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[Alan]

That's OK.

Previous owner up until last year had a licence which I signed about 10 years or so ago which clearly explained we were paying a site fee to place our carvan on the site.

New owners who took over last year sent out the annual ststement in February which said site fees, the format being similar to that of previous owners. But no new licence was in place so it looked as if we were carrying on paying under the old licence agrement.

Out of the blue new ownersand 12 months after they took over ownership are asking caravan owners to sign a new licence (as in their words old licence has expiired). The new licence has two separate fees, one being a lease fee and the other a pitch fee, knowhere in the licence does it explain what each fee covers.

Payment of the lease fee and and the pitch fee are six months apart.

The adding of the lease fee element means caravan owners are being asked to pay 50% more this coming year comred to te previous year.

I wont go into any more details of my actions to date and my further actions..

Sorry, I did not mean that your question was immaterial - I used a very inappropriate word.
 etc

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[fhb2]

I can think of one big company in the residential & holiday sector who has been oft reported as trying on this sort of thing - I do hope your new owner is not the same.
I'll wish you the very best of luck in getting this resolved - although maybe with owners like this you may end up deciding to relocate to somebody with a  more customer friendly business plan anyway.
Stay determined - good luck.


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[Alan]

Just a quick update with regards to my query.

After a lot of emails back and forth with the site owners they relented and said I could pay their recently introduced lease fee at the same time as my site fee.at end of February 2023. I still thought the lease fee was an imposition by the site owner bumping up the annual cost by 50%. Site owner finally realised I wan't going to pay the lease fee and told me to enjoy the caravan until end of February after which I had to move the caravan off site.

I wasn't too surprised by this considering I had given them a hard time with my constant questioning of the reason for the introduction of a lease fee, My caravan is 26 years in good condition so I decided to approach companies who buy any caravans, I had an offer to buy the caravan in a couple of days which I accepted as I thought it was reasonable in the circumstances and yesterday the low loader came onto site to remove the caravan.

The company who bought my caravan were quite good and gave me plenty of time to remave all our personal belongings and the rest of the items which had gathered over the years. As soon as the caravan was on tthe transporter the company paid the purchase price into my bank account;.



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[Scorpio]

Hi Alan, thanks for updating us with your final outcome. 
To answer your first question, we only have a single, annual site fee which includes all costs except gas electricity and WiFi.  In our case, the licence allows the caravan to be sited for 20 years, then is on an annual review.
I am pleased that you got a reasonable price for your caravan and wish you well in the future.

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[Alan]

To answer your first question, we only have a single, annual site fee which includes all costs except gas electricity and WiFi. ln our case, the licence allows the caravan to be sited for 20 years, then is on an annual review.

I forgot to mention my caravan was transported to Poland, according to the company who bought my caravan this happens quite regular, I have to wonder why my caravan which is in good condition but is 26 years old makes it worthwhile to have it transported all the way to Poland?

I never got to the bottom of why my site introduced a lease fee or what it was for, perhaps it relates to paying to renew an annual licence? A lot of caravan owners on site historically are on an annual licence renewal with the previous owners but at nil cost?

You mention "In our case, the licence allows the caravan to be sited for 20 years, then is on an annual review."  Assuming you have reached the 20 year limit do you have to pay anything to renew it for a further year?

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